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Mar
2
Stadium fear and bribes
March 2, 2006 |
NorthStar made two big moves on the stadium front this week.
First was the assertion that April is our last chance to keep the teams. The Chiefs management especially is saying that they will not try again if the April ballot fails, even though there are two more opportunities in August and November to go back to voters with better plans. They also reject the idea of a modest $80 million tax to finish out the current 2014 leases.
The second push this week was a big old bribe. A deal with the Chamber of Commerce was announced that would see most of the money from the rolling roof’s naming rights donated to local charities. Unfortunately no one thought to notify the County Legislature or Sports Complex Authority of the new deal! How about using the naming rights money to lessen the tax burden on Jackson County residents?
Comments
115 Comments so far
Nice post.
I also can’t believe that JaxCo let the Chiefs retain 100% of the naming rights to Arrowhead. Oh wait, yes I can. If JaxCo voters fall for this stuff, they deserve their crappy schools, bad roads, high crime, and corrupt/incompetent political masters.
I like Yael’s editorial today in which he notes that over 20 years, KCMO’s population has risen 1% but the city budget has risen 38%. I wonder if KCMO residents feel that things have gotten 38% better over the last 20 years.
Of course no one has yet invented the tax that Yael and The Star will not support, including the rolling roof.
That’s an excellent point. This entire campaign is indicative of how and why taxes have shot up and the budget is sky-high. Many of the local media mouthpieces demand this, that, and the next thing from KC, but actually don’t live there, couple that with the sell-out attitude of many local politicians, and there you have it. This rolling roof is perhaps the dumbest idea I’ve seen in 20 years.
Well, since I don’t live in Jackson County and don’t feel cheated about naming rights, I think it is good that the stadiums are not named after a corporate entity. Though I would not mind them being named after me.
How about re-naming Arrowhead
“The Hunt Family Memorial Swindle?”
Vote Yes, Jackson County, and when you are out at the stadium, enjoy your $40 parking, $200 tickets, and $10 beer, and know that none of that money will help make Kansas City a better place to live, but will give Lamar plenty of excess cash if he wants to build himself another home in Texas.
So Yael wrote about the change in the city’s budget. But did were his numbers inflation adjusted? If not the column is BS since a 38% increase over 20 years wouldn’t keep up with inflation.
So the Chiefs and Royals are threatening to leave the Truman Sports Complex. Why can’t Kansas City demand the Chiefs get the hell out if they can’t make it to the playoffs? Or, in the case of the Royals, field a team that isn’t such an embarrassment.
Well the infamous naming rights show up again. it was rumored that the reason that they were given away in the Bi-State II agreements were because some woman had the power to sign them over in exchange for some big Mayorial donations. Of course in the mean time the deals got dirty and investigations got started and then Bi-State failed and so why are they being given away this time? Who wants what this time?
Does anybody know if the anti-stadium tax group is up and running? I need to do something on a personal level to help stop this corporate welfare debacle!
Anyone checked out the daily blitz from the Star? If they had any sort of circulation and wielded even a small amount of influence in this town, I’d be concerned. Now Mike Hendricks (Lenexa Res) is on board. I am amazed at how many of my Journalism 101 prrofessor’s “10 Commandments of Journalism” are violated weekly by this rag…certainly “thou shalt not cheerlead for a cause” and “thou shalt not use banner headlines unless the Japanese bomb a naval base.” JaxCo voters need to keep in mind that many of our local opinion-makers are not residents who will share this burden: Kay Barnes lives in Briarcliff (Clay Co.). There is no doubt in my mind that if this boondoggle passes, we will all regret it for years, JaxCo and non-JaxCo residents alike.
I don’t think we should give you any more money to waste on something we didn’t need or ask you for. We have two stadiums that needed renovation before the tax for the stadium downdown was passed. Why did you ask for money for a stadiume we have no team for but you didn’t use that money to fix and renovate the stadiums we use and teams we need to find a wa to keep? If we still don’t have more hotel space for visitors then how will the new stadium be used? We can’t support out-of-town guesses who come to see games or the teams who come to play in it!!!!!!! THIS WAS A BIG WASTE OF OUR MONEY!! Why don’t you use some of your money? You have more than we do but it’s YOUR ideas WE are paying for. If you can’t vote and don’t like in this county, you have no comments on anything that goes on in this county. Stay in your county, we don’t need you or your comments here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yes, the rolling roof is a stupid idea. If this roof malfuntions we will once again be asked to come out of our pocket to fix it. Just put a normal roof on Chiefs Stadium and be done with all this bull we keep hearing from those who wish to just get paid from this.
So, how big is the roof again? How come they always say how big something is using the football field metaphor except when it’s actually designed to cover a football field? Too obvious, I guess. If the thing blows off, we’ll find out if it’s big enough to cover Raytown.
Is it big enough to cover “BridgeZilla”, Chuck Eddy’s pet project to bury Minor Park under an expressway viaduct? If so, put the roof over that and we can consolodate our boondogles, AND once again have a covered bridge over the Blue River.
Corporate Welfare! Corporate Welfare! That’s all this City is about. It’s my mantra.
What a Great Society we would have if we just spent the money where it’s needed for maximum social, economic, environmental, and educational benefit.
Sigh
if my understanding is correct, our esteemed jackson county executive, katheryn shields, GAVE AWAY the naming rights to the teams some time back. anyone want to do the reserach on that and report back? as far as the “charitable contribution” of the chiefs from the sale of naming rights…they only did that because the chamber of commerce held a gun to their head and threatened to withhold their $25,000 donation to Save Our Stadiums. Wanna see more? go to the missouri ethics commission website and pull up the Save Our Stadiums filing. check the list of doners and the list of expenses paid and to whom. it’s all the usual suspects.
Vote NO to renovate the stadiums.
Vote YES on the Rolling Roof.
If the Chiefs and Royals don’t want to pay for their own renovations, we’ll easily find teams that will fix up the stadiums with their own money to play under the largest roof in the most progressive sports complex in the country.
no elbryan, you are in error. if #1 fails, #2 is moot. no money that might be raised under the auspices of questions #2 can be expensed toward stadium maintainence. no use tax will go into effect. PERIOD! also, if #1 fails, the january 24, 2006 AMENDED leases are NULL AND VOID and we’re back to the horrible documents of 1990.
Inquiring Minds Want to Know Part IV
How about that clever use of Roman numerals? Thankfully, this will all be over at 7pm on April 4th, so it’s doubtful we’ll get to XLIX…as in…Super Bowl X-Lax.
It has been an interesting week. Let’s examine.
1. Wasn’t that KMBC Channel 9 Editorial just dandy? Mr. Wayne Godsey hit the nail squarely when he states that this is nothing more than a public subsidy squeezed from those who cannot afford it…..and given FREE to those who can. Corporate welfare at it’s worst. Simply a bad deal. Thank you for taking such an admirable position, Mr. Godsey.
2. If the Truman Sports Complex will be “NEW,” as the outrageous ads proclaim, then why can’t we do what really, truly NEW stadiums do and charge Personal Seat Licenses? Let’s see: 70,000 season tickets at Arrowhead x $2000 PSL = $140 million! Of course, Jackson County will not see one dime of that revenue either.
3. Speaking of fun math, do you realize that Arrowhead sits idle almost 98% of the year? Kauffman 78%? A total of 89 regular season sporting events out of 365 days. What’s that over 25 years? Total days: 9125. Play dates: Chiefs: 200, Royals: 2025. Total play dates: 2225. Total number of idle, vacant, unused, unoccupied, $1 Billion-the-meter-is-running-days: 6900 or 76%. That giant sucking sound you hear is that of $1 Billion dollars being whooshed out of taxpayer wallets.
3(a). Now the fun part: Using the $1 Billion this will cost the taxpayers:
Per game Arrowhead subsidy: $5,000,000.
Per game Kauffman subsidy: $493,827.
Cost per day for stadiums to look pretty over 25 years: $109,589.
And the teams each continue to pay only $450,000 per YEAR; the same as in 1990! Shame on them. Shame on whomever negotiated that. Was it even addressed?
4. Anyone catch our esteemed mayor, along with Steve Gloriassa on Walt Bodine’s KCUR show last Tuesday at 10am? Their performance was shameful. An embarassing display of crass boosterism, cheap shilling and mindless cheerleading. These two SOS synchophants carried on like pre-pubescent monkey-faced kids with their pull-my-string-chatty-cathy canned statements and responses to call-in questions. They did not answer a single question in a direct manner. Listen to the entire 1-hour show at http://www.kcur.org. Click on Walt Bodine Archives for March 14, 2006. Get a barf bag.
4(a). When Gloriassi prattled on and on about “publishing” ahead of time when the rolling roof would be…get this…rolling, he actually boasted about creating dangerous traffic back-ups on I-70. He virtually guaranteed there would be massive traffic tie-ups on I-70, and that this would be a good thing. Upon hearing that, it became painfully clear that these two were nothing more than empty suits braying to the wind. This is leadership? This is what they want our money for? Entertainment on an interstate highway? I think not. KCUR was hijacked and they are not pleased.
5. What about the consultation provided by Mr. Andrew Zimbalist, nationally recognized expert on the folly of public subsidies to pro sports franchises and the lunacy of the purported economic effect these businesses have on a city or a region?
5(a). Per Jackson County, the study was commissioned by the WhiteGoss law firm, home of Mike White, negotiator for the County to the teams. WhiteGoss paid for the initial telephone consult, but was reimbursed by the Jackson County Sports Complex Authority with public tax dollars. Doesn’t that make the contents public property? Of course it does. Why have we not heard a peep about the contents of this study? Was it unflattering? Is it being supressed?
Ask Mr. White at: mwhite@whitegoss.com.
6. Can anyone explain why King Carl Peterson was so roundly and soundly booed at the most recent Brigade game? Jason Whitlock did a masterful job of slicing, dicing, and pureeing Mr. Peterson, as well as lambasting the sorry performance of our latest entry into the world of trashsports. As one who appreciates a sharp pen, I am humbled at the acumen of Mr. Whitlock.
7. Rah-Rah-Siss-Boom-Bah! Has anyone been in a bar or restaurant when the Save Our Stadiums gang of perky cheerleaders come in? They tried their schtick at a certain bar on Main Street and were met with icy resistance. After flowing in the front door like sewage from a slag pit, they proceeded to interrupt every patron in the joint. Within one minute they were confronted by the owner, General Manager, floor manager, head of waitstaff, and head bartender who told them in strongly worded terms that they could IMMEDIATELY leave the premises, and never come back. Ever. Isn’t that a wise use of campaign dollars?
And it goes on and on and on and on…….
The proponents steadfastly refuse to provide information on this issue based on facts. They prefer to use scare tactics, fear-mongering, and blatant obfuscation in an attempt to divert attention from the truth. By any criteria, this issue will not stand on its own. It doesn’t even pass the smell test. It stinks!
How sad. How juvenile. How utterly dispicible.
This is and remains a MAJOR LEAGUE RIPOFF!
Question #1: VOTE NO!
Question #2: VOTE NO!
Craig Davis, Chairman
NO! I CANT AFFORD IT! Committee
PS: Feel free to disseminate this mail as you see fit.
for anti-stadium yard signs and more info, write me at: noicantaffordit@yahoo.com. volunteer time, in-kind donations, and cash donations welcome and needed. any amount. send to: NO! I CANT AFFORD IT! Committee: PO Box 45377, KCMO 64171
I would like to ask a question. Why would you vote no to the renovations but vote yes to the roof? If the stadiums fall apart under the new roof then what do you do, come back to tax payers later for something that should come first? We still have no team for the new stadium being built downtown. Why not just make that stadium the size of Chiefs stadium and lease that building to the Chiefs. Just get rid of the stadium all together. It would make sure that the building could support it’s self rather than just sitting there waiting for nothing and tax payers again will have to foot the bill like with Union Station. It’s the TEAM I watch the game for not the STADIUM!!
Renee: a NO vote to the renovations (Question #1) is an automatic NO vote to the roof (Question #2). A yes vote on Question #2 is nullified by a NO vote on Question #1. Everything hinges on Question #1; when #1 fails, everything fails. i will post the ballot language here presently. Also, upon a Question #1 NO vote, several things happen: A) NO $1 Billion sales tax increase; B) NO outrageous renovations at TSC; C) NO roof; D) NO use tax to finance roof; E) NO expense of any money raised pertinent to Question #2 to be spent on the stadiums (see D above); F) NO “AMENDED” 1990 leases…the original 1990 leases become the documents of record; the so-called “new” leases are null and void. When this happens the proper thing to do is explore raising the $60-80 million the Jackson County Sports Complex Authority (JCSCA) says is required to bring BOTH stadiums up to state-of-the-art terms of the original 1990 leases which both teams signed, thereby keeping them in KC until 2015. should the teams not like that, it will be their choice to default and break the leases, not that of the County.
FYI: Ballot language for “School and Special election April 4, 2006.
Question No. 1: Shall the County of Jackson impose a countywide sales tax at the rate of three-eights of one percent (3/8%) for a period of twenty-five years from the date on which such tax is first imposed for the purpose of improving, renovating and modernizing the Harry S Truman Sports Complex to retain the Kansas City Chiefs Football Club at Arrowhead Stadium and the Kansas City Royals Baseball Team at Kauffman Stadium with leases for a term expiring January 31, 2031?
Question No. 2: Shall Jackson County impose a local use tax for the purpose of constructing, maintaining and operating a rolling roof over Arrowhead and Kauffman Stadiums at the Harry S Truman Sports Complex, with any revenue from the tax which is not needed for those purposes to be used for retirement of the obligations issued to finance improvements to the Harry S Truman Sports Complex, at the same rate as the total local sales tax rate, currently three-quarters of one percent, provided that if the local sales tax rate is reduced or raised by voter approval, the local use tax rate shall also be reduced or raised by the same action, such tax to be imposed only if a 3/8ths of one percent sales tax for improving, renovating and modernizing the Harry S Truman Sports Complex, as described in Question One on this ballot, is approved by the voters? A use tax return shall not be required to be filed by persons whose purchases from out-of-state vendors do not in total exceed two thousand dollars in any calendar year.
Observations:
Note the length of the first sentence in Question #2.
Note the phrase “to be imposed only if a 3/8ths of one percent sales tax for improving…..as described in Question One…is approved by the voters?”
This is clear terminology that anything connected to Question #2 is null and void when Question #1 is defeated.
End of story.
I’M TIRED OF MY TAX DOLLARS BEING SPENT ON A BUNCH OF LOSING SPORTS TEAMS. THERE ARE A LOT OF MORE IMPORTANT THINGS OUR CITY AND COUNTY NEED THAN ABUNCH OF LOSERS THAT REALLY PROVIDE NOTHING FOR THE CITY. IF THE TEAMS WISH TO STAY LOWER SOME OF THE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN SALARIES PAID TO PLAYERS. LET THE TEAMS SUPPORT THEMSELVES. WILL THE COUNTY RAISE TAXES TO KEEP MY EMPLOYER HERE IF THEY SO CHOOSE TO LEAVE? I THINK NOT!!!!!!!
Mark: The solution to your dilemma is simple: VOTE NO! ON QUESTIONS # AND #2 on April 4th. Poof! The let’s see if the teams can stand up like adults…can they take off the diaper?
Mark: oops, THAT’S QUESTIONS #1 AND #2.
The Chiefs last played in a Super Bowl in 1969. The Royals last played in a World Series in 1985. We are fast becoming the Chicago Cubby fans of the midwest, chuckled about across this nation. Their loyality is unparalleled. Until now! To vote for this is to become the biggest suckers on the planet. The biggest boobs in the universe! There should be bumper stickers on every Jackson County resident’s car saying “50/50 or NO deal”. The gouge here is what’s most offensive. If the teams don’t want to give their fair share in all this then don’t let the door hit them in the ass on the way out of town.
Can’t afford it? Who in here can’t afford it? Mr. Math Whiz, let me ask you this: do you spend $100,000 a year? Odds are you don’t even make that much, so I’m going to assume a solid no on that one. Here’s why I ask: if you spend $100,000 year the sales tax you will pay in Jackson County will be (ready for this?) $381. That’s it. Now, let’s be reasonable. Who can’t afford a 3/8 of a cent sales tax in one county of one city? If you spend $10,000 in Jackson county $38 a year in sales tax. See where I’m going with this, smart guy? I’m not even going to discuss the money making potential if this thing passes and we get a Super Bowl and an All-Star game. Not to mention the thing that should be important to everyone–we get to keep our teams. Yeah, our teams haven’t performed well (especially of late) but they give me something to cheer for and something to be proud that we even have! I don’t care if you don’t like sports, being unable to afford the tax is a crock and everyone knows it. You need to recognize that a city is judged by the number of professional sports teams. Enter Sprint Arena. Did you ever think that’s what it’s about? Improving a city, did that ever cross your mind? Why would a city improve roads or build hotels (not something a city does, by the way) if there is no reason to? Without your so-called “corporate welfare” businesses have no incentive to come to this city. Oh, forget it. Why should I teach Econ 101 Macroeconomics to someone who pulled out their calculator to determine the number of days a stadium is used and then put it away before declaring “I can’t afford it!” to a 3/8 cent sales tax.
Yes, a city IS judged by the number of pro sports teams they have: the greater the decay, the greater the need for a distraction. Meanwhile, the truly vibrant and progressive cities don’t miss a beat when a team up and leaves. (What’s that pro football team? The Los Angeles WHAT?)
Look at Portland, Oregon. One of the most livable and progressive cities in the USA, population similar to K.C. What have they got? Trailblazers? ffffffft
“They are us, and we are them” Talk about a crock! If the Chiefs and Royals left town, we might have a chance of becoming a progressive city once again. With them here, it’s like Bread and Circuses time, Decline and Fall.
You know what I can’t afford?…Listening to crooked politicos like Country Club Kay and Steve Glorioso gush over what glory the rolling roof will bring.
Hope they’ll leave town along with all the corporate parasites. Let them pimp out some other third rate city-wannabe.
Mike LeMay: Simple solution: VOTE NO ON QUESTION #1 AND NO ON QUESTION #2. Problem solved; case closed. Stay or go? We have no control over what the teams decide. As long as we have dumpsters, vermin like Steviewonderboy Gloriwhatanassami will have a place to feed. These parasitical types have been feeding at the public trough for so long they don’t know any other way of life. If the teat isn’t supplied by someone else, they don’t know what to do. Suck! Suck! Suck! Greed! Greed! Greed! VOTE NO ON #1 AND #2.
JR (doesn’t that stand for junior, as in little?) you are obviously a hopelessly brainwashed SOS synchophant. I didn’t need a calculator to come up with the fact that Arrowhead is used only 2% of any given year. 2%!!! 8 out of 365 days! I can do that in my head. Instead of flapping your prodigious jaws, go to the Jackson County Website and read the Developement Agreement for the Chiefettes; http://www.co.jackson.mo.us/. The following, among other numbers, will make you gag!
Panning for Gold in Jackson County The Chiefs and the Royals are once again panning for gold in Jackson County. They long ago gave up searching the streams that meander through the county. The mother lode is in the pockets of the taxpayers. For a couple of million dollars promotion costs and some free tickets, team owners can tap into the mother lode by conning Jackson County voters into passing the April 4 stadium tax. How will they do it? They will do it by hiding their intentions about the stadium renovation plans.
On May 5, 2004, the Chiefs and Royals created and delivered to Jackson County representatives, copies of their “conceptual estimates” for renovation of Arrowhead and Kauffman Stadiums. These two public documents were successfully kept from the public for several months before the public obtained copies. (Note: as of March 2006, the “wish lists”, as they came to be known, have never been released to the public. Information in the two documents helped defeat Bi-State II. Now that it is 2006 and a new stadium tax is coming to a vote, the contents of the 2004 wish lists are providing new insight into what taxpayers are being asked to fund. At last the truth can be told.
Put simply, taxpayers are being asked to build a new TV/Radio studio for the further enrichment of Lamar Hunt. In the 2004 Chiefs list, $24,682,000 was allocated for electrical. Such projects as scoreboards, elevators, and heating/cooling include their own electrical costs. Opponents to the tax suspected the nearly $25 million electrical work combined with another line item of $38,656,000 described only as “indirect costs and contingencies” was to build a Radio/TV studio to allow Lamar Hunt to join the “NFL Network.” Fast forward to March 2006 and we find Time Warner Cable currently in negotiations with the NFL Network. As soon as they have a national agreement for carriage, the Kansas City division will be included. Current plans for stadium renovations contain the same high expenditures for electrical work, a fact that confirms the intent to build a studio for Lamar.
When the Chiefs studio is completed and negotiations are finalized with the cable company, Lamar will join the other NFL team owners in the NFL Network and the loop will be complete. The entire NFL will be able to broadcast their own games and feed them into the cable for their end goal of a dedicated 24/7 broadcasting of NFL activities. The real objective here is to eliminate the current network’s involvement, leaving the billionaire team owners to keep the network’s profit share. Once the networks sold advertising, paid the NFL, and kept the difference as profit. Now the NFL will sell the advertising, pay the cable company, and keep the difference as profit. All this will be possible if the taxpayers of Jackson County pass the stadium tax so Lamar can build his studio without cost to himself.
While Lamar works on his second billion, 68,000 low-income, working Missourians will lose their Medicaid coverage, K-12 schools remain under-funded by $800 million, college and university tuition costs are up 60% in the last 5 years, and Missouri state employees are the lowest paid in the nation.
To make things equal, taxpayers will get wider concourses and a few more toilets.
Here’s another one for you Mr. Big Mouth JR:
ROLLING ROOF According to the Save Our Stadiums (SOS) fact sheet, the roof spans 816 feet between tracks, 690 feet side to side and rises 245 feet high. This is a total of 103.45 million cubic feet. The fact sheet assures us that the inside will be climate-controlled. Climate-controlled? Heating and air-conditioning? Wow!! What would that cost to heat and cool?
A typical 2,000 home square foot home contains 16,000 cubic feet and has insulated walls, windows, and roof. The proposed roof is not insulated and has the volume of 9062.5 homes. Multiply your annual gas and electric bill by 9062.5 and the cost to heat and cool the rolling roof is over $2 million per year. (Probably more because the Union Staation costs that much per year.) The rolling roof would not be occupied every day like your home, but it would take several days to warm it up or cool it down for an event.
Who will pay the utility bills for this climate-controlled roof? I don’t know, but I can guess. Hint: It won’t be the billionaire team owners.
What do the environmentalists think of this huge energy usage? Don’t forget to turn off the lights after the game.
Oh, where do I begin? I think I’ll start with the retiree. First, Mr. Davis, the name as posted above is JP, not Jr. Better put on those reading glasses there, grandpa. I wasn’t going to say it, but since we’ve resorted to childish remarks, what the heck? Now, back to business, which is exactly what the Chiefs and Royals organizations are–businesses. No one is denying that here, Craigy. Seeing as the number one businesses objective is to run a profit it makes perfect sense that you would criticize Lamar Hunt for doing just that. I bet you were one of the people that threw a fit when the oil companies turned a profit last year too. However, back in your salesman days I bet you never once complained when you made a buck, did you Craigy? Or maybe you did. The way you are trying to sell your view isn’t very effective maybe selling just isn’t your M.O. You’ve raised some very interesting points, but you still haven’t answered my question, Craigy. How is it that you cannot afford a 3/8 of a cent tax? “68,000 low-income, working Missourians will lose their Medicaid coverage, K-12 schools remain under-funded by $800 million, college and university tuition costs are up 60% in the last 5 years, and Missouri state employees are the lowest paid in the nation.” How is any of that relevant to current discussion? Yeah, were talking money but comparing apples and oranges in terms of tax dollars. Basically, by using your version of a scare tactic kids are uneducated, people are underpaid college tuition is up and all because Lamar Hunt wants to eat you and your children. I can debate those issues into the ground, but again, we’re not changing the subject like that again, Craigy.
The point is this: you talk a big game (and you call ME the loudmouth!) but you have nothing to stand on because the simple fact is the teams are good for KC and economically it makes good sense–for everyone!
Now, back to Mr LeMay (by the way are you related to Gen LeMay, serious question and I mean no disrespect…yet) I’m so glad you mentioned LA’s lack of a football team! Geez, I would have totally forgot about that had it not been for you and the fact that I was either too busy counting their 9 other professional sports teams or maybe it was just the fact that the outgoing NFL commish just promised them a team. Just a hunch–probably the Chiefs if this doesn’t pass. Well, maybe not LA, maybe San Antonio. I had the good fortune of being in SA when the Saints were playing and talking to many of the locals they will not rest until they get a football and baseball team. Same thing with Sacramento (although, they are currently scared of losing the Kings. Ironically, to KC). This is a long post, so let’s review for the benefit of everyone. Mr. Davis is a loud-mouth with an agenda, but no real argument, and KC needs sports. Questions?
JP, JR. stupid is as stupid does.
That’s all you have? Stupid is as stupid does? Your the leader of a group to stop this proposal and ALL you have to say stupid is as stupid does? You STILL have not answered my question! Wow, apparently I was over estimating you when I said you don’t have a point. Now I just think you are an imbecile. Geez, Craigy, you should run for office or something. That could be your stump speech: “Stupid is as stupid does.” I can’t believe you got interviewed by the Star! Seriously, I hope that you are the best the opposition has to offer! You’re a joke. Answer my question, Craigy! Or anyone else for that matter! Step up if your leader can’t speak for you!
Fine, Craigy. If you can’t answer a simple economic question regarding this issue and the name of your “committee” that you are a “leader of,” I’ll simplify it for your narrow mind. Here it is:
What are you proud of in KC? What makes you happy to be a resident?
If it’s not sports, what? I’m insinuating that if you are not a sports fan you can’t enjoy KC, I’m just asking what you enjoy about Kansas City since you obviously don’t care about sports. The Nelson? Truman Library? Union Station? Gates? The boats? See, I love all of those things but at the heart of my city are the two teams sitting right in the middle of it all. You are different, I think we can agree upon that. What I want to know is what you like. I think your “supporters” deserve to really know the true Craigy and what he likes in KC.
Or does he? Do you realize that Airmen in the United States Air Force actually want to get stationed in crummy Knob Noster for the fact that they can attend professional sporting events in the summer and winter? Do you not care about them? Do you really hate the troops? What!?! You hate America!!
Of course, I’m kidding about the hating troops/America thing. I’m just trying to string together some faulty logic in the same way the genius “committee chair” Craigy so eloquently spins.
Yep. That’s it where you are concerned. Sorry I couldn’t be more descriptive, but what part of stupid don’t you understand? When it comes to dealing with morons, JP, JR, JO, OJ, JJ, whatever, it’s best to keep it simple. And in your case there are only so many single syllable words to use, stupid having two of them in case you didn’t notice. I don’t have to answer your question or that of any other caterwaling SOS syncophant, nor am i concerned what your pea-sized brain thinks of me. you can read what is being said in the star, hear it on the radio, see it on TV, and read it in blogs all over town. obviously, you do. unlike you, i don’t want for an audience. Is that what you’re being paid to do by SOS? So, that’s it for you, Mr PB&J…i’m done with ass pimples like you. your last post and any subsequent will be ignored, like all wild-eyed fringe dwellers should be. good night and good luck.
I thought JP was a serious pro-1, pro-2 person until he made that last argument. So, if we vote down the taxes, the terrorists win?
By the way, we can always afford a 3/8th cent sales tax. But the problem is, there’s always ANOTHER incremental tax, and they always point out how it will ONLY cost another $31 a year or whatever. It’s nickle-and-dime. Wanna take bets when the sales tax will hit 10%?
In any case, I can’t afford to go to a Chiefs game, though I’m being asked to pay for luxury suites for people who make money off the games they watch for free.
Just seems un-American to me. But maybe I’m out of touch with the new reality of Bush tax cuts and rule by corporations.
If anyone has any questions regarding the character of Mr Craig Davis “leader” of NO! I Can’t Afford It! Read the post above. This is coming from the same person that doesn’t like sports because he doesn’t like their attitudes. That last post makes that comment laughable on so many levels.
I have read your stuff. I think you make some very interesting and equally irrelevant points. My original question (ignored)was how you can’t afford 3/8 of a cent on a sales tax for the better good of a community. In your most recent post you said it would approach 10%. Now I know you have no concept of money, thanks for that. The Bush tax-cut line is outside the scope of this discussion (again with trying to change the topic, Craigy) and again isn’t flowing with anything else you have to say–especially when you are arguing against taxes!
As for me being paid by someone, all I can say is that I’m not. I’m Just a guy that is truly concerned about the community I love. You’re not going to see me on TV or hear me on the radio or read me in the Star. Nope. So you’re right again Craigy, it is totally me that’s after the attention; not you.
I guess the America hater joke went over your head. I see you don’t grasp the concept of logic, and how if used incorrectly, you sound dumb. Then again, you prove that every time you write something or give an interview. Grow up, will you Craigy? Quit being so self-centered. Isn’t that something else you claimed athletes were?
I apologize, in my last post I misspoke. I misread Craigy’s post and thought he was saying the stadium tax would approach 10%. Upon rereading, he did not. However, he did say that he can afford a 3/8 percent sales tax. That raises the question: why did you name your group NO!I Can’t Afford It!?
Sir, changing times incur changing costs. That’s the most basic definition of inflation. So you are probably right, at some point more improvements will need to be made to the stadiums at some point down the line even if this issue passes. Yes, sales tax may hit 10% but there are plenty of other worthwhile issues out there that you have brought up yourself. However, your anti-business attitude is deplorable. Business is about as American as you can get, seeing as we are the global hub of capitalism and all.
However, just because you can’t afford to go to a Chiefs game doesn’t mean that it is bad for KC. “I can’t afford a car and I don’t drive on 435, that means 435 is bad for the city and should not be repaired. I don’t use it–what good is it?” See, that’s the twisted logic I’m talking about. That’s why your argument doesn’t hold water.
So, you finally answered one question (that is that you indeed CAN afford it) now I’m curious to hear the answer to the second: What do you like about KC? I think it’s important because I’m gathering that you are very self-centered and if you don’t actually enjoy being in KC I find it even harder to believe that you are trying to preach what is good and not for the city based on “fuzzy math” and terrible logic.
JP: I am not the “Craigy” who runs the No I Can’t Afford It organization. Please take the time to read the Full Names of those of us who are not afraid to post them.
My point about paying for the suites is a matter of fairness. You seem to miss that. Though I think all businesses should pay their own way and not rely on sweetheart deals and endless subsidies.
Sure, we can afford it. I’ll just have to take that 3/8 cent out of repairing our water mains.
How’s that for holding water?
Sorry about the confusion, Craig M. Touche on the water comment, bravo. It seems that maybe you should take the place of Craigy the professional activist. At least you make a more poignant case then the Craigy.
Good morning all,
I have read all of the posts and arguments for both sides. It comes down to one thing. Whether you want the improvements or not. Whether you want the Chiefs and Royals in KC. The business aspect is just that. BUSINESS. Last time I checked, we are a capitalistic nation. That means businesses are going to try to make money. That does not mean it is bad for everybody else. When Wal-Mart moves into another town, it is bad for small Mom and Pop shops, but it is better for the community as a whole. Nothing is going to be perfect for every single person….it is just not possible. But what is best for the majority (greater good of the group….I think it is in some old economics book) should be the deciding factor. The teams are great for KC. They provide jobs and money and attract tourism which brings the city more money. Do you really think the roads are going to be fixed if we lose the teams? NO. It is a MOO point. Looking at the numbers and dollars, it is a good deal. But on top of that, I love the teams and would vote yes even if the deal was not as good. You all have a right to your opinion, but joining this blog/post board means you are interested in other people’s comments. Be open-minded. Let it be a debate. But when you start throwing in childish name-calling and false assumptions about each other…it is no longer a debate for adults. You are just being pathetic. However, if all you want is a childish word fight…..I can entertain myself for awhile and humiliate all of you! So shut the fuck up and keep the debate at a decent level, or bring your best butthead and loser jokes.
VOTE YES…..GO CHIEFS AND ROYALS!!!
Oh yeah…..
Who brought up LA and Portland? Yes, Portland doesn’t have teams besides the Trailblazers. But what city is looking and has been for a Major League Baseball team?
That’s right…..PORTLAND!
And LA is just funny. How many teams do they have again? REAL PROGRESSIVE!!!
Not to mention, they have college sports in LA. KC does not. Interesting fact to think about.
I usually check out the issues involved in these ballot questions. In the case of 1 & 2 this time, I’m quite sure that the sports teams are not any kind of economic engine for Kansas City. The way it has gone, they have been an overall drain on our economy.
But you know, you don’t really have to do all that work checking things out:
1. If you get lots of expensive mailpieces pushing an issue, just vote against it.
or, even simpler:
2. If you see “Lee A. Moore, Treasurer” on anything, vote against it.
If you just can’t bring yourself to observe my simple rules (above) for voting on taxes in K.C., I think this discussion tonight might open some eyes on the stadium-taxes issue:
Stadium Tax Panel
March 27, 7 PM
Plaza Library Branch
4801 Main, KCMO 64112
Do you really think the teams have been a drain on Kansas City? Do you know any employees of either team? I think you would be shocked when you found out how many people would be out of a job if both teams left. Hell, even dicks like Jack Harry would be out of a job. That is a thought only a moron could have. Sure, the city needs to invest…..INVEST…….in our teams, but we come out on top. Did you know that the Super Bowl alone can generate $400 million for a city in just 2 weeks? That money doesn’t go to the teams and its players. It goes to local businesses and the city. Hotels, restaurants, stores, etc. Even a high school drop out can figure out that this is not a stupid investment. If you don’t like sports or the teams, just say so. But don’t try to make this sound like a bad business deal. I get scared trying to figure out what you all do for a living, because anything above the McDonals’s drive thru would be scary. Use your brains, vote yes.
Just look at the people who are boosting these taxes: corporate shills, political hacks and people who hide behind phoney names.
I have not seen any serious economist make the case for this so-called “investment”.
The Super Bowl will COST the city money. Local businesses SUFFER when a Super Bowl comes to town. It’s all media hype and everyone is staying home to watch on TV. Kansas City doesn’t have enough hotel capacity for a deluge of out-of-towners. And there’s no way extra capacity will be built for a one-day event. Even if there are other events, that won’t keep hotels in business.
If you build it, they will come…
And leave the next day, after staying at a friends house, or a motel in Sedalia.
Talk to Detroit. Everybody said that would be a horrible Super Bowl city too! Apparently, it worked out pretty well for the city. Besides, the people that can afford a ticket to the Super Bowl, usually will drop a few bucks on a hotel as well! I can’t believe I am hearing such stupid comments from someone that speaks the English language. Explain to me how local businesses SUFFER from the Super Bowl. More people buying more stuff = a bad thing? I must have missed that math/economics class. It is obvious those against this have no real reasons, and won’t use common sense to make a decision. “Because it’s stupid” is not an acceptable reason to vote no. Because you are stupid, that is a better reason.
Detroit is in a death spiral, and the Super Bowl diverted attention from the horrible policies that have lead to that city’s condition.
Did you see Mahoney’s piece on the Jacksonville Super Bowl? He showed that business was OFF during the Super Bowl there because, although there were people visiting the city, it did not offset the natives who were avoiding the percieved invasion. Add to that the cost to City services for security and what not. There you go: NET LOSS.
So get yourself a REAL NAME and some REAL FACTS, prik.
(That’s not an attack, that’s what the poster called himself.)
I do have a real name you fucking moron. I just don’t feel the need to share it on the web where a bunch of crazy bastards might use it to come make me the 14th victim in their serial killing spree. You might be one of those sick fucks. I don’t give a shit. Still not going to “bully” me into giving you my real name. I might as well add my social security number, telephone number, bank account numbers and whatever else you need….address would help too! But what is a poster? I never called myself a piece of paper hanging on the wall. If you are illiterate….get help. Otherwise, shut the fuck up. You are only making yourself look ignorant and invalidating the claims you make which are supposed to be intelligent thoughts. And please don’t use Jackonsville as your example. Everybody has said that was the worst city to have a Super Bowl. It was a nightmare. That holds no relevance to what KC will do when the Super Bowl is here. That is like comparing Apollo 13 to every single shuttle launch. You can’t use the worst case scenario to validate a point. Of course there is a risk, but there are always risk. But the potential gains outweigh the risks ten-fold. Seriously, if you are not afraid of hiding your identity…..please tell me what you do for a living (it must be a company that allows idiots to work for them). I am already getting bored with trying to explain this to you. I have a better chance of teaching you the ABC’s (which I think you need to learn).
Hey, Prik;
Would you use that language with Dave Helling and Wayne Godsey? They both said there is no reason to vote for questions one and two based on the “economic impact” argument. If you just want to have the rolling roof and luxury suites, fine. But there will be no economic benefit from these taxes.
I see some really suspicious figures here. I believe in math. 3/8th’s of a cent sales tax is (you do the math!) 3 divided by 8 which gives you .375 which is that part of every penny so for a dollar you move the decimal one digit to the left and you have .0375 of every dollar you spend. Duuuuuh! Now that was easy! You buy a $20,000 car you spend $750.00 on this tax. You buy a room addition or driveway at around $10,000 a pop and you pay $375.00. Let’s say you spend a $100 a week for groceries (pretty average). That comes to $5200 for the year every year. We do the math again and it comes to $195.00 per year every year. Seems to me that those who say this is a simple innocuous little tax not worth mentioning either flunked econ 101 or lives in Johnson county! Hehehehe! Like I said, you do the math!!!!!!!
Wow. I missed a lot today. First let me echo to Craig what I said to him last night: you seem like a respectable guy. I know where you are coming from and as far as I can tell you don’t have some sort of self-serving angle like Criagy, the wonder-boy go-to guy one stop shop for your anti-progressive professional activist campaign leader who does not have a clue much less answer a question but I sure do like my quote to be in the Star-Davis.
So, you seem like a good guy, but I must respectfully disagree with you. First, I have to agree with Mik-The-Prik, I enjoy my anonymity. If you must know my first name is Jared. Beyond that, I won’t give any details in a chatroom where everyone lives in the same county as me. Google maps is a little too smart for that kind of behavior and as you can tell the arguments do get heated in here.
Secondly, it seems that despite the crudeness Mik only speaks the truth–just in a very passionate way.
Now then in response to the most recent post, you’re right in fact that my math was off. I said it was $381 per $100,000 and it really is $375 per $100,000. Your math while technically correct on the 375 part was incorrect at the most basic of basic math skills level: you forgot to account for those pesky dimes. Ie, you didn’t move your decimal places enough. If you really don’t believe me and if you can’t get your calculator to display the correct information don’t give up yet! Use the aforementioned glorious Google technology and type “3/8 of one percent.” Amazingly, it gives you the correct answer you need to figure. I’m not going to rip on you too hard considering math errors happen and decimals are important! I hope you aren’t an accountant! Geez, I bet a company would be pretty mad at you if you were handling large amounts of money and OOPS! I misplaced a decimal point. Also, I was wrong without entering it in a calculator, but at least I was in the ballpark…so to speak. Don’t you know I wish Google was around when I was in school?
You may as well hear it from me: you’re calc is off by one decimal point. It would be 0.00375, not 0.0375.
But a billion dollars is a billion dollars. That’s what it costs. And what do you get for it? Well, that’s another post.
I hear the words, “Well it’s a business and business is supposed to make a profit!” Yes that is very true but the salient fact not mentioned is that there is a difference between profit and obscene profit. That is the real issue here and that is why I think the intelligent residents of Jackson County will vote it down. The siren song of the Chiefs and Royals groupies doesn’t resonate
with those that don’t go or even watch sports. In point of fact that represents the majority of the population of Jackson county. I watch football on television. I have never been to a Chiefs game nor do I ever hope to go. Peterson has seen to that. I can’t afford it. Hunt keeps Peterson around cause he can look you right in the eye with a straight face and justify the cost of ticket increases over the past what? twenty years with teams that are less than stellar. I have gone to some Royals games when the general admission was $4 and I could park for $3. Games weren’t really crowded then and you could wait till the seventh inning stretch and then go down and sit in some pretty good seats. Oh for the good old days! Not any more. If you watch pro sports at the stadiums today then you are semi rich and you want the rest of us suckers to subsidize your fun!
What is an “obscene profit” and who makes that determination? You? Are you qualified to make that judgement? Am I? What if I said I thought you made too much money? I don’t even know what you do, but what if I determined it was too much? Isn’t that what you are doing? What was the profit of the Chiefs last year? How ’bout the Royals? Did they have “obscene earnings” last year? How dare you criticize anyone’s ability to earn money. Who do you think you are? Lamar Hunt spent his own money to bring a team here and has single-handedly earned us a Super Bowl. Sure, he’s out to make a buck just like you or me or any other American worth his salt. I don’t think you have a concept of money or even how an economy works. Are you going to insult the late Ewing Kauffman next? You know he often dipped into his own pocketbook for that team and even ensured that it would stay here after his death. Aw well, he was an evil rich guy, right? Let’s everyone be jealous at people that have more then us, shall we? Damn the man that can enjoy going to Chiefs games, for he is a vile and wealthy creature. You people are sickening.
Again, the argument by the opposition is that people who don’t like sports won’t support this. I hardly think that the voters of Jackson County are so selfish and so foolish as to think that this is not for the greater good. Again, if I can’t afford a car and I don’t drive on 435 does that mean 435 is a waste of my taxpayer dollars? If I don’t use it then it is no good to me. I don’t need it. I can watch other cars drive on it, but it’s worthless to me. Sure, it is the beltway of commerce around the city, but that only means that others benifit–right? IT’S THE SAME ARGUEMENT PEOPLE!!!!
If there were no Chiefs to watch on TV would you continue watching your games on TV? The games telivised from cities who support their teams. I can’t stress enough what a travesty a city without any professional sports teams (unless you count MLS) would be.
Seriously, you can gripe about the cost of attending games here but it is BY FAR cheaper than anywhere else in the country. I know, I’ve been to 7 other stadiums and have yet to find even one that compares to the atmosphere and price of either Arrowhead or Kauffmann.
So what do you get from this tax? For starters keeping two professional teams in KC. Then add two potential money making events–Super Bowl and All-Star game which have already been guranteed. Then throw in the potential for a college bowl game (more money, more recognition). Best of all–two modernized statiums to enjoy two professional teams for the rest of our lives and a team for our kids to cheer for (depending on your age for the kids thing, of course). This is really a no-brainer here, folks. It’s a must-pass! People like Craig the professional protester Davis have yet to give an arguement besides “I DON’T WANNA” like a little baby. All they examine is the cost (minimal as I have often pointed out in these posts) with out examining what it will do for the IMAGE of our city alone, not to mention the economy. But oh no! Someone may stand to gain from this! Lord what about all of those people who enjoy sports, they may be happy! What about the employees of the Truman Sports complex, the philanthropies started by the teams and the players, the volunteers that work every game to earn money for their organizatins, the hotel revenue, the sales tax revenue the TV ad profits and again the IMAGE of the city, God think if that were to all remain or (gasp) improve!! I’ve barely even scratched the surface there people, but heaven forbid anyone but Craig Davis, bitter old man, be happy!
Oh please pardon my stupidity but I think it might just be my misunderstanding of the words! I guess then that would mean the new car tax would ONLY be $75.00. And the new driveway would ONLY be be $37.50. And that grocery bill would only be $19.50 a year every year. Golly gee! I still don’t have that much money to throw away for somebody else’s fun at the stadium! What part of Johnson County did you say you lived in????? I do have parents in a retirement community.
I guess I’ll just have to ask them to forgo the oxygen so some other “fans” can have there hotdogs. Actually the barbs don’t hurt at all here because in the end I really think this thing is going to be shot down by more practical heads. In the end I think the pom pom boys & girls cheering on the Chiefs and Royals are going to be the ones boo hooing. I also wonder if this blog will be here to hear their wailing cries of foul!
Don’t give me that crap that your parents will die if this passes. That just shows your inability to use reason over, well, idiocy. Ultimately, it shows you don’t have case. My dad is an avid Royals fan. He may die if he doesn’t have a team to cheer for. After all, happiness is the ultimate life-elongator. So one of us will lose our parents if this thing goes either way. Good luck.
Are you SERIOUS!! You either make less then minimum wage, didn’t graduate from junior high or all of the above since one would lead to the other, wouldn’t it?
I just love getting on these forums and expressing my opinion. Much cheaper than in house therapy. On another note I think that this stadium blackmail has the backing of not only Hunt and Glass but also the general leagues of the NFL and the National & American leagues of baseball. They know that if the public comes to not liking this occasional blackmail by teams to get their way with stadiums then the situation of all will become much more difficult. After all as has been said already here, “It’s a business!” If teams had to actually pay for their own stadiums then it would be bad for their bottom lines and glory be! why that would mean that the super riches toys would cost a lot more money. Why poor old Hunt would probably have to cut down on the number of yachts he owns or maybe one less hockey team! Getting back to my point, the leagues gave away a Super Bowl & All Star game to help insure that the poor AND MIDDLE CLASS wouldn’t get so uppity and vote NO! I just wonder in the next week what else they will trot out to get us all to comply. Boy have they got a shock coming.
I used to really like watching the Chiefs on TV in the late ’60’s and even the early ’70’s. Hank Stram I think was a real genius and Lenny really was cool. I never considered Hunt anything but a rich kid with a team in his mouth (silver spoons have been passe’ for some time now). I gagged when he put the manager of Worlds of Fun in as the general manager of the Chiefs and I understand why Hank quit. He could see a loser coming a mile away. We’ve done nothing since but tread water in the ’80’s & ’90’s & now the ‘2000’s I guess. Can’t anyone stand up and say it, “The Chiefs really do suck!” And I see a deeeeeeeeep cravas coming with this new coach. Wow! A 4 and 11 record. What more could we ask for! This team doesn’t deserve anything more than new toilets. And then we get to the Royals. The laughing stock of baseball. The only way they are leaving is if they can find someplace where they can pay them to take them. Can we really expect much more from a owner whose been brought up on those smiley faces cutting prices at Walmart? Can we say cuttin salaries even further! No stadium for these guys. I’d rather support a little league team. The hot dogs are cheaper.
I will most definitely say this about obscene profit. When you get to hundreds of millions of profit added to ANY bottom line that is obscene profit. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that if the Royals are putting in 10% and the Chiefs are putting in something to the tune of 27% then the taxpayers must be putting in 63%. Now if the Royals kick in 13% and the Chiefs put in 37% of the whole price for the stadiums then that makes it an even steven deal 50%/50% with the public. As it stands now the Chiefs are obscenely profiting by about the tune
of $75 mil if you include the roof which you must since that’s the only way we get these one week events of the Super Bowl and the All Star Game ten years in the future, I should live so long! Yessire when you talk in millions of dollars in “extra profits” that’s obscene and I do take offense. Don’t think so? Just watch while myself and about a hundred thousand more of us take exception on April 4th.
Sir, I believe that you are confusing the word “profit” with “expenses.” May want to look that one up.
I have one more bone to pick with this deal. It was conceived by the most incompetent city council on earth. Lead by this out of county Mayor Kay Barnes and backed by the gaul-durned best mafioso councilwoman Katherine Shields that ever sat at the table. Who in their right mind would entrust money to the likes of these morons. They must have stolen the money that was supposed to honor the present contract with the improvements it needs to fulfill the present contract? Where did that money go? Oh golly gee let’s entrust them with another billion here or there to do this deal. Have we got into cost overruns yet? Does anyone in their right mind think it will come in on budget? I sure don’t. I say let’s let this deal fall through and then watch the Royals fall flat on their collective faces again this year and then watch the COMPLETE collapse of the Chiefs next fall and THEN decide on whether this is a good deal or not! Oh I know! It will just be another rebuilding year. Have we heard that one before? Hey! once a sucker always a sucker I guess that’s what they feel. We’ll swallow that line forever I guess they think.
I just can’t quit! It’s just addictive. Just one more!!!!! It took two years to build the last stadiums out there. Where are our teams going to play while this magnificent new blunderbust is being built? Hmmmmmmm. I haven’t heard that one discussed? Maybe out there where the Bulldogs or whatever their name is plays. Maybe the tailgaters can camp out and have them play where the Blue Ridge mall was torn down? Maybe they can play in the new Sprint Center! That’s it. Something else that evil witch Kay Barnes touched.
Unbelievable! I made money last year, so I must be a dickhead. But, some of you probably made more than me…..so I guess you are all even bigger assholes right? I still haven’t figured out the concept of “obscene profit”. It sounds like someone in here is in favor of Communism! Oh well, at least they passed math in 1st grade. JP, excellent points you made. You just went into more detail about how the teams affect the community and jobs, etc, etc. I guess I don’t have the patience with these people to break it down that far. Good Job! It couldn’t be any clearer. The teams are great for the city. Not all teams win, but they are still good businesses. Yes, the Royals suck. But they keep making money for some reason. They keep paying their employees, who can then feed their families. AMAZING!!! At the end of the day….it comes down to the simple fact that people love sports. Not all, but a majority. No one criticized Stars Wars for being in theatres and making money. I hate Harry Potter and The Ring and Star Wars, but I don’t oppose the movies either. Movie prices are obscene, but I don’t bitch and moan when somebody spends their own dollar how they want to go watch a movie I think sucks. It’s a choice. You will get to make yours. But in the end, you will realize how many sports fans there are (not to mention people who enjoy a good economy and simple perqs like…..a job, food to eat, something entertaining to do besides sitting all day at the computer bitching about life). I don’t know if you were always picked last to play dodgeball or what, but sports are not evil things. If you ever put that much effort, time, and emotion into something you would understand. I guess it is a lost cause preaching to you imbeciles. We will just see on April 4th. And I PROMISE I will be on here the next day with a few words!
Oh yeah…..who mentioned the Cubs? 20 years since our last World Series is a little more than the Cubs!!! No even close. But if you want to go that route….look at the Red Sox. Ask people in Boston if they would ever let them leave the city. HELL NO!!! And it had been 86 years since they won a World Series. And I would like to think Boston is a “progressive and vibrant” city!
Dear Mr. Prik: I tend to not get personal on these talk forums but since I’ve done debate for years now in different venues I’ll tell you this. Using derogatory verbage against your opponents and taking all this personal is a losing proposition. Just make your points and quit sophomoric comupance. No one’s going to meet you in the parking lot. To say that “everyone loves sports” is myopically wrong in the extreme. You can take the seating capacity of the stadium versus the population of the Jackson county and you have the breakdown of the rabid “richer” fans versus those of us who watch from afar. I read a piece in the metro section of the paper from an older woman that said she was for the stadium rehab because it was exciting for her to watch on TV?????? What was she thinking. Let’s say the Chiefs moved to Sedalia. Let’s say THEY were dumb enough to build the Chiefs their playhouse. Would this old lady lose her excitement for a “local” team. I don’t think so. The tailgaters would just have to get up an hour earlier to get there. Could we call them the Sedalia Chiefs and still root for them just like we root for the MU Tigers or the Lawrence KU teams? Seems to me this is an ego trip for a bunch of rich people in this city, no more no less. I know fans that like the St. Louis Rams and go every week they play there. So what’s the difference? You go to St. Louis or you go to Sedalia! The rich can afford this.
It just gets better and better! I wondered last night what the next cookie would be that the Chiefs would drag out! Now we’re gong to have a Thanksgiving night game for the Chiefs! Of course it is a rotating game and would only be here FOR THIS ONE YEAR.
Next they’ll have the Chiefs cheerleaders visiting your homes personally. This and the other “anti” websites have been outspent 2000 to 1. Could it be that the Chiefs are really worried that leveler heads may prevail? And now we have the Missouri ethics committee being dragged out to make sure there isn’t some big bad West coast money mogul trying to steal our teams!!!! I must clue them in. There’s this blog and another one of some repute run by a couple of “kids” that see through this whole scam. $500 versuses $1.2 million by the Chiefs and Royals. If this is such a good deal for the city then why do they have to spend that much money on advertising? Actually the kids only spent $19 on their website. What ever happened to freedom of speech. I guess the monied moguls rule.
Now, now JP don’t get your dander up! You obviously are a doctor since you have told us all you know what life extenders are and how to administer them. I think I asked this before? What part of Johnson county do you live in. Possibly on State Line? I’m guessing you’re in that $100,000 a year strata that has all that disposable income to spend. By the way, does anyone think $40 for parking is excessive. Probably not! After all it’s only $320 a year for the 8 games here. JP can afford it.
San Antonio, Tx. 1,236,249 pop.
San Jose, Calif. 904,522 pop.
Columbus, Ohio 730,008 pop.
Austin, Tx. 681,804 pop.
Memphis, Tenn. 671,929 pop.
Fort Worth, Tx. 603,337 pop.
El Paso, Tx. 592,099 pop.
Louisville, Ky. 556,332 pop.
Nashville, Tenn. 546,719 pop.
Las Vegas, Nev. 534,847 pop.
Oklahoma City, Ok 528,121 pop.
Albuquerque N.M. 484,246 pop.
Long Beach, Calif. 476,564 pop.
Fresno, Calif. 457,719 pop.
Honolulu, Hawaii 337,260 pop.
and of course K.C. at 444,387 pop.
Now all those cities listed with the exception of K.C. are second class cities according to JP or Mr. Prix I guess since they don’t have a professional NFL team?
You don’t have a fucking clue John. First off, I never asked anyone to meet me in the parking lot. That would be too easy. Secondly, my choice of verbage is on purpose. I can’t think of a better way to describe you and your thoughts than “fucking moron”. It is not that my vocabulary is too small. I just choose the words that work best. If an old lady says she will vote yes because it is exciting to her, who in the hell are you to tell her she is wrong. I think she knows what excites her better than you dumbass! And who repossessed your house? Obviously you have a big problem with anybody that has more money than you. I am not rich. I am not upper middle class. I am probably lower-middle class. That is not rich. But I choose to spend some of my hard-earned money on Chiefs tickets. I know alot of people who are the same way. They prioritize what they will spend money on. The Chiefs and Royals are important to some people. It doesn’t make them rich. Maybe they would rather spend the money on Chiefs tickets than going to the movies or out to restaurants or on internet. The biggest mistake you made in your “debate” is that you assumed too much about people you don’t know. You don’t know the answers. You don’t know me or what I do, where I live….same for JP. But you like to think you do. I never said everybody loves sports. I said a majority love sports. If you want to act like this is a debate and you have intelligence, at least read the words right! Whether they are at the games or watching them on TV, people support the teams. If they didn’t, neither team would make any money and would be gone. I think that speaks for itself. As for me taking it personally, you are damn right! I am a Chiefs fan. I am a Royals fan. The teams are worth it to me. It is well worth it for me to pay a little extra to have the teams in KC. I’m suprised you pay for anything, as cheap as you sound. I can’t tell if you are a bum on the streets and have no money, therefore you bitch and moan at everybody who does OR if you just have that shitty of a job and life that you bitch and moan at everyone else’s happiness.
If you need a fucking dollar that bad, I will send you one. Besides, I’m rich!!! I can afford it!!!
What a fucking moron. San Antonio Spurs. Memphis Grizzlies. Texas Rangers (play in Austin). DO I HAVE TO KEEP GOING?
And all the other cities have have major college sports. KC doesn’t.
Las Vegas is just a joke. You can’t compare any city to Las Vegas!
There’s another boogie man in all this mess. It is the general contractors that salvate everytime someone mentions a new stadium, be it downtown or out at the complex we now speak of. Anyone irritated with yellow barrels while going downtown? I’m thinking that some of the people that are supporting this are the same ones that have been enjoying the revenue released after the money was locked up and then released for our state and city highway projects. That money had been stolen on a regular basis by moving it to the general fund. I’m thinking that all that work is coming to an end and this fiasco is partially for supporting the construction contractors salaries down the line in the future. I don’t know any of this for a fact but that’s what I’m betting.
Before this blog comes to an end I must compliment the webmaster or blog censor here. You let the writers vent their spleens and say what they want save a few cuss words.
I think it’s pretty fair and I have enjoyed it. Thanks for give us a place to have our say.
Dear Mr. Prix, Prick, Prik. I just never get names right the first time. I think I can see the steam coming out your ears. It’s not that big a thing Mr. Prik. It’s a vote that will decide an issue. Nothing more, nothing less. I guess I’ll abide by the outcome. What other CHOICE do I have? By the way, since you say you are lower middle class and buy those season tickets, do you go to the Goodwill to suppliment your childrens clothing allowance? Maybe just Cheerios for breakfast? And damn those second rate schools and chuck holes. Hey! whose counting!!!!!
Dear Mr. Prik: I am sooooooo hurt by being called a “fucking moron”. Do you have anything else germaine to the issue at hand to say? I must say you don’t win friends and influence people with those words. Perhaps you need to revise your arguments or possibly you just need to go wrap a few more Chiefs pom poms. You’re right of course! I am a street bum who uses library computers to comport my innate lack of worth and hatred toward compliance to the money moguls. I must leave now and go dumpster diving for my lunch.
Wheeeeeee! Where’s everybody else on my side of this issue? I kind of like reading other peoples posts too! I already know what I’ve said.
Makes sense to me. But a few questions. What is wrong with Cheerios for breakfast? I know a few people that are actually rich that only eat a bowl of cereal for breakfast. And what does the allowance for clothing my kids have to do with Chiefs tickets. Its called prioritizing. You really are that stupid. All the people I know that go to Chiefs games feed and cloth their kids first. Its that extra money they choose to spend on Chiefs games rather than movies, CD’s, HBO, Playstation games, etc. Is it really that hard to comprehend? I am not trying to make friends or gain votes. I am just speaking my mind. It is an important issue to me. If you don’t think it is that big of a deal…..why are you talking about it so much. Why even vote?
What exactly is the salary amount per year that equals rich to you? What do you think lower-middle class is? Cheerios is a perfectly adequate breakfast last time I checked. And I don’t know anybody that has Chiefs tickets that doesn’t feed, cloth, and provide a roof for their kids. Also, what second-rate schools are you talking about? I don’t think you have any concept of money. It doesn’t take a millionaire to afford Chiefs tickets. They are $80/per game plus $23 for parking. You go with a few friends and it costs less than $90/per game. Throw in some beer, brats, chips, and lets call it $100 per game. $1000 per year or season (8 home games and 2 pre-season). Somebody doesn’t need to make $100,000 per year to afford that. They don’t even need to make half of that. You also have to factor in single people, or married couples with 2 salaries. Hell, even dating couples that split rent. $1,000 per year can easily be made if you do a variety of things: don’t smoke, don’t drink beer daily, use coupons when you shop for groceries, buy in bulk, not spend for HBO, Cinemax, etc, go out to eat all the time, conserve gas and electricity consciously, don’t take a vacation (or not as nice of one), mow your own lawn, buy clothes on sale, eat less junk food, drink tap water as opposed to bottled, golf less, stay away from the casino, not buy the paper every day. I can keep going if you haven’t gotten it yet. You really need to learn how to BUDGET if this doesn’t make sense.
And the Thanksgiving Day game has nothing to do with this issue. Are you that paranoid? How much pot did you smoke? It is a game given to us by the NFL because it will attract a large audience on national television. It is good for the NFL. Won’t affect the stadium issue in any way shape or form!
Dear Mr. Prik. You are the precious one. You seem to have stumbled on that one about prioritizing. So you have prioritizied and the tickets come first and the Cheerios come second and somewhere down the line comes your kids and your wife. And ALL your friends seem to be doing quite well doing the same thing! My! My! My! What a fine upstanding group you all must be! And do you drink a lot of beer with your friends out there at the games? Let’s not forget the beer drinkers image of St. Patricks Day! Your esteemed personna may be falling by leaps and bounds if you’re not careful. And you mention that weed or dope marijuana? Do you smoke or eat or stick that stuff in your arm out there at the games? Do your friends do that out there too in that wonderful stadium? Well I see MY money will be well spent going to support an upstanding crowd like yours. More of that discretionary disposable income you keep talking about I suppose.
What in the hell are you talking about? Obviously you can’t read or you wouldn’t have babbled all of that bullshit above. When did I say the tickets come first? NEVER. Same thing for the wife and kids. Honestly, where do you come up with this shit? I love how you claim to know me and my friends and how we live. Simply amazing!!! And what if we drink beer at the games, what is your point? I have no idea why you mentioned St. Patrick’s Day either. I am starting to think that you may be an old cenile man because you are just rambling about nothing. To comfort you, no; we don’t smoke weed (at the stadiums or anywhere else for that matter). I guess you just don’t want to or won’t listen to reason. Yes, I have discretionary income. Plenty of people do. I budget mine accordingly and am able to enjoy the things I really want. I would like a nicer car, house, clothes, bigger tv, but I made choices. I would rather go the Chiefs games than drive an SUV. Doesn’t make me rich. Just makes me a competent person who can budget what he has to do the things he really wants. You are hopeless. You will never understand this and I can’t figure out why. But good luck in the old folks home. Hopefully, you will remember your starving children when they come to visit.
There is a very interesting history of the A’s you can pick up on any search engine with “history of the K.C. Athletics”. They played here in K.C. a long time ago before the Royals and after the KC Monarchs. We actually only suffered one year without a major league team in K.C. I didn’t know that Roger Maris actually started with the A’s here and at one time the A’s were the farm team of the NY Yankee’s. Here’s a synopsis of their end.
1967: With the Athletics continually struggling at the gate in Kansas City, with many believing fans in Kansas City are staying away because of Charlie Finley himself, owners finally give in and allow Finley to seek a new location for the Athletics. In the A’s final year in Kansas City they finish in last place once again with a 62-99 record. The lame duck A’s only manage to win 10 of their final 40 games. However, a bright future lay on the horizon in Oakland; at the end of the season Reggie Jackson makes his debut, and with in a few years would become one of baseball’s premier sluggers. The A’s also continue to develop strong pitching as Vida Blue, and Rollie Fingers were only a few years away from joining the big club. As for Kansas City they would only have to suffer a one-year absence from the Majors as the expansion Royals joined the American League in 1969.
That is some very interesting information. Is that a debate for or against the stadium upgrades? That is what this blog is about. Just wanted to make sure you knew. Great info though. I am always up for some KC sports history. Thanks!
Dear Mr. Prik: You seem to miss all of the points here that disagree with the pro stadium stance. I don’t care if you go to the games. I don’t care how much you spend at the games. I don’t care if you drink or don’t drink at the games. I don’t care what seat you sit in or if you eventually get rained on. I just don’t want you doing it on MY dime. You and your like minded supporters pay for the stadium totally. You and your like minded supporters pay for the upkeep totally. You and your like minded supporters can recreate any way you want just pay for it yourselves. You are asking me and other less inclined Jackson county citizens to help with this and then you phoney up the argument with, “It’s good for the city!” The Kansas City Chiefs have never ever once contributed to my well being, my food supply, my housing, my transportation, my medical expenses, my utilities, OR my recreation. If you lik’em then YOU pay for them. TOTALLY! If Grandma Moses wants to watch the game then let her buy it pay per view, TOTALLY!
My thanks to john; well put. If all these people like sports so much and love going to watch the teams play, so be it; then you can pay for it. Other than the revenue in the stadium, really not much other revenue is produced. Most all the players don’t even live in the area, or even if they do they live in Johnson county. Most everyone in attenance at the games is from the K.C area so not really that much hotel or restaurant revenue. What about all the thousands we pay the police every game for traffic control, etc. The teams want to stay in K.C., make them be self supporting like any other business. Maybe the players ought to give back some of their millions paid in salaries. I have nothing against sports, but I’m tired of seeing my tax dollars being spent for them, where there’s more important services our city and county need to provide with our taxes. Oh, and most all your sports “peronalities” and other big wigs pushing for the tax don’t even live in the city or Jackson county. Try Johnson County!!!!!!!!!!!
Problem solved…….if you don’t or can’t afford to buy anything, you never will pay sales tax. All the poor bastards’ problems are over. HOOOOOOOOOOOORAY!!! Now tell me this; if you can afford to buy things, what all does the sales tax pay for? Anybody know? What else does Kansas City need to get rid of? The Sprint Center, Union Station, Nelson-Atkins Museum, Kemper Arena, Municipal Auditorium, The KC Brigade, The Wizards, The T-Bones, The Plaza Lights, Fountains, All Barbeque joints, The American Royal, public transportation………..?
Here is a better question….what do you guys want? Let this metropolitan city cater to all of you and ignore the vast majority.
Oh it just gets better and better!! I wondered earlier what other cookies the teams would drag out and now I know! Now we are going to have a final four in the new stadiums supposedly. First a Super Bowl (ten years down the road). Then a All Star game (again down the road). And now the Final Four!!!!!!!!!!! Why next we will be hosting the Olympics at Arrowhead!!!! Maybe a moon shot from Arrowhead if we can get NASA on board. The more intelligent of you will be able to recognize a con when you see one. I need not say more. This is really getting comical. I’ll bet the Royals hate the fact that they get to lose a game before the vote! What the heck! We’ll get to watch them lose a hundred more so it really doesn’t matter.
Exactly what is wrong with having a Final Four in Kansas City? It probably won’t be at Arrowhead jackass (my guess would be the Sprint Center which is already past legislation), so it doesn’t matter with this vote. How dumb can one person be? Seriously, think before you speak next time.
i can see that JP knows nothing about architecture and economic solutions with buildings. it is funny to think that people would be willing to pay for a roof that would require large amounts of money to enclose everytime. i think it is the worst solution out of any. i also think JP hasnt done the math on how long stadiums are used for. oh i bet that the Chiefs will want a new stadium right after the so called superbowl comes.
i guess the prik doesnt watch the news because i recall seeing the final four could come to KC if the stadium is enclosed.
i love when people say things before they research information. it makes them look like a dumbass. an example would be THE PRIK.
I’m sorry. I have a job and had not heard anything about it. That makes no sense though. Why would they play basketball on a football or baseball field? That is either bad information or KC is stupid. We are building the Sprint Center for that shit. Oh yeah…..stadiums usually last a long time. How long has Arrowhead been around? And it is not a so-called Super Bowl. There is no myth about it DUMBASS!!!
The fact is you all obviously hate sports. I don’t know whether you all were picked last all of the time or just have jealousy for everybody that has more money (or is smarter with what money they have). The stadiums need this. We need the teams. Normal people love the teams and it will pass. SO FUCK OFF!!!
how long are the improvements supposed to last? how old is arrowhead? has the superbowl been signed saying it is coming for sure i dont think so. i guess you probablly wouldnt know that because you havent heard that yet.
the stadiums dont need this solution MIK so fuck off. i love sports and the chiefs and dont disagree with improvements to the stadiums. i dont agree with the rolling roof. it could possibly be the worst solution of all. i think that building a new stadium would be higher up there in my opinion.
Here’s an interesting artical from The Star that everyone can take something from. Of course it isn’t the KC Star, it’s the Indianappolis Star–from a city that actually works to get and keep sports in their city. Remember when the NCAA Headquarters used to be here? Remember where they moved?
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060329/BUSINESS/603290462
For the Prik:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/14215612.htm