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Jun
12
New Hockey Blog
June 12, 2006 |
The Sprint Center opens in just over a year with speculation of possible NHL or NBA teams flourishing. Lots of folks are spending lots of time tracking the various ins and outs of teams ripe for relocation to KC. This new blog focuses on the hockey possibilities.
Comments
30 Comments so far
Who is going to watch hockey??!! You got to be kidding me. We need an NBA team no questions asked.
whoa now, why do we need an NBA team when we have quality college action close by? we need some NHL…i’ll watch it!
There is a huge difference in college and professional basketball. Don’t get me wrong..I am a huge Jayhawks fan, but having a pro bball team seems a lot more exciting and would probably generate a lot more revenue.
The NHL finals are going on right now..and nobody cares. Without looking it up…who are the two teams in the finals?? Most people wouldn’t know or care.
I’d rather have an NBA team and I’m not a big basketball fan. I just despise the excuse for a sport that professional hockey has devolved into. If I was a fight fan I’d watch boxing. What’s wrong with a “sport” that has had players legitimately prosecuted for assault during a game? I don’t follow the NBA because I’m one of those oddballs who only invests his time and emotions in the home team. I follow the Chiefs and yes, even the Royals. Whether I’d pay as much attention to either sport if KC didn’t have those teams is questionable.
For what it’s worth, if you go to the Sprint Center site, there is a poll where you can vote for either having an NBA team or an NHL team in KC. Hockey was winning with almost 56 percent as of Saturday. My pick would be hockey for sure.
Funny thing is, these kinds of arenas usually do better without a major league sports team.
An NHL or NBA team would get a sweet deal with virtually free rent and probably keep most of the proceeds from tickets and concessions on game nights. That means the city loses money on those nights where the arena is hosting a game instead of a convention, concert, trade show, graduation, etc.
Economically speaking, a professional sports team is more like a loss leader that is used to promote the facility and bring in other events that actually make money for the city.
I think perhaps this city needs to confront the real truth:
Kansas City is not big enough to support 3 major league franchises.
Sports has become SO EXPENSIVE.
$9 to park at a Royals game? $75 for a Chiefs game? And, you think this city will pay the incredibly high price of an NBA ticket? I doubt it. And, if you are, you are probably going to stop going to as many baseball and/or football games.
Unless this city has more corporate ticker purchasers and rich people, this thing won’t fly because the market is not big enough.
Chris,
Your comment is precisely why I am an advocate of getting an American Hockey League team for the Sprint Center rather than a National Hockey League team.
The American Hockey League is AAA, top-level minor league hockey, tickets would be more affordable and an AHL team would, most likely, not have the same restrictive demands of an NHL team.
There are currently two dormant AHL franchises looking for homes, one owned and operated by the Edmonton Oilers and the other owned by Cincinnatian Pete Robinson.
“I’d rather have an NBA team and I’m not a big basketball fan. I just despise the excuse for a sport that professional hockey has devolved into.”
Jim S.
with all due respect, that is an ironic statement considering the history of the NHL and the history of the NBA.
Having any pro sports team in KC would be good. People will support them, and if you haven’t noticed..the Chiefs play in front of a sold out stadium every Sunday..and when the Royals were actually productive a few years back..they also played in front of a sold out ball park. A lot of this will depend on the owner of the team that will come in.
When you look at a team..you also have to measure the intangible assets the bring to the city.
Plus..the NBA isn’t just about offense anymore…think to the past couple of champions…Pistons, Spurs..and this year it will be the Mavs. The game is becoming more popular then ever. When you have Steve Nash as the MVP two years in a row..you know where the league is heading..to the top!!
Joe, if you want to look “a few years back” to this time when the Royals were good, the Chiefs got very little support.
And, more importantly, we HAD and NBA team that no one supported.
We HAD an NHL team that no one supported.
What makes things different now?
When I mean a few years back I mean in 2003 when the Royals were barely over .500 and yet the stands were packed. In 2003 the Chiefs were still playing in front of a full house as well. Where do you get this concept that the Chiefs and Royals steal fans from one another. They play at totally seperate times!!
I think you are cutting sports fans too short of a rope here. Their minds can grasp the concept of enjoying more than 1 sport..possibly 3!
Also..”what makes things different now?” Well..Time makes things different..thats the beauty of time..it gives you the chance to evolve..which this city has. It has been given over 20 years to change..don’t tell me you think KC is the same as it was over 20 years ago. It’s a lot more different then what it was 5 years ago.
Why do you people want to settle for second rate..like minor league hockey. Do you still want to live in a second rate town? I sure dont.
M rationale is that there is only so much money to go around.
Joe, Perhaps you are rich, but most people couldn’t afford to have season tickets for the Royals, Chiefs, and a NHL/NBA team.
And, there’s just not enough people in this area who will drive in and cover the difference. Let’s face it, no matter how “big league” this town wants to think, there’s not a big enough fan base.
Sure, if we brought in an NBA team, they might get good attendance for a few years, but my guess is that they would start to struggle after the newness wears off, not to mention if they were a losing team!
I love sports, but I’m letting these guys take all my money. As it stands, I will probably never watch a Chiefs game in person again - it’s just not worth it.
How small do you think KC is?? not enough money to go around?! KC is one of the largest centers of commerce in the midwest. There is plenty of money to go around…if we kept up with that rationale..why would we continue to improve on the city infrastructure when there is only “so much money to go around”
Joe,
WHO IS GOING TO BUY THE TICKETS?
We are one of the SMALLEST markets in the COUNTRY.
Why do you think the Royals TV & Radio contract is so small? Because it doesn’t reach very many people.
Let me try to make this clear:
In New York, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, etc, they have LOTS of people in a small area. (a HIGH concentration of people)
In Kansas City we have a large area with very few people. (a SMALL concentration of people.)
Do you see the difference?
Plus, Football doesn’t count. They only play 8 home games (10 if you count the worthless pre-season) and that’s not hard to fill - heck, even Green Bay Wisconsin can fill seats 8 times a year.
However, selling 10-13,000 seats 41 times a year (NBA home season) at a price of over $40+ a seat would be HARD. It could be done for a few years, but if interest waned, the team would be in trouble.
Also, just so you know, we are building city infrastructure with BORROWED money. That’s why the city has huge debts. It’s probably necessary, but it’s costly.
The chiefs stadium holds almost 80,000 people. Like you said they play 8 home games..Lets say the sprint center holds 12,000 people and you say they would have 41 home games a year. Do the math for yourself and see which cost’s the people of Kansas city more.
NFL
80,000 * 8 *75(average price)= $48,000,000
NBA
12,000 *41*45(estimated price)= $22,140,000
This is the cost that the people of greater kansas city would have to pay to fill the seats up to max capacity every game.
If the NFL isn’t hard to fill…I don’t think the NBA games would be either..if you are just taking into account the price of the tickets.
Furthermore..when people talk about small market teams..they are talking mainly about the salary cap of a team. The Royals have a tiny payroll, but that is at the discretion of Mr. Glass (worst owner ever). The Royals had the 4th largest payroll in 1994 and we were actually competitive.
Denver and Cleveland both are a 3 sport town and both are doing quite well. Cleveland, Denver and KC are similar in size..population wise. In the greater KC area..we have nearly 2 million people. Just a little under 500,00 in the KCMO.
Let me also note that nothing is a sure thing..and maybe this will all go down in flames, but just give it a chance people. I think my conviction is just so strong because of all you cynics out there.
With an NHL or NBA team, Kansas City would be the smallest market with three of the four major sports leagues (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA).
Currently, the smallest market with three of the four major sports leagues is Cleveland. According to the 2000 census, Cleveland has 300,000 more people than KC, however they are closer to other cities which are not counted within their metro population, like Toledo (90 minute drive and 650,000 people).
A 90 minute drive does not constitute the surrounding metro area. We might as well count Topeka, Emporia…well the list goes on…you get my point.
Look at the numbers again on population..I think you added one too many zeros…they have 30,000 more people than KCMO. But you also have to take into account our surounding areas..such as JOCO(johnson county is larger than KC), Wyandotte, etc. The total population of the greater KC area is 1.8 million ppl.
Clevlands population ~480,000 ppl..that is just the city…I don’t know if they have large communities around it.
According to the 2000 Census, the Cleveland metro area has 2.1M. KC has 1.8M. That’s a difference of 300,000.
Toledo is 90 minutes from Cleveland and has 650,000.
Topeka is 60 minutes from KC and has 224,000. Empora has 30,000. Lawrence is 100,000.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/phc-t29.html
Aren’t there committees or teams of people who study the feasability of these things? If we get an NHL team, is there some substantial proof or evidence to show that residents will sustain it long term? I just don’t see NHL as being successful in this market — at least not as much as NBA. I’m simply relying on city demographics on that one. Stick an NHL team out in Overland Park or Olathe. Don’t they want arenas?
Joe, your math is misleading.
The total cost doesn’t really matter. What matters is the cost to the INDIVIDUAL who pays for the tickets and parking.
Will people who already have Royals or Chiefs tickets be willing to spend EVEN MORE money to go to an NBA game?
As I have already tried to explain, there is only so much entertainment money that a person or family is willing to spend, so they either drop something (like Royals Games or going to movies) or they don’t bother.
By the way, your figure on Cleveland’s population is WAY off - you are guilty of doing what you just accused other of doing - you didn’t include the suburban areas.
Here’s a link with more info:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006051630248
I like that idea Paul!
Are you certain of the claim that people don’t have enough money to spend on entertainment? What evidence do you have that people aren’t willing to spend the money. If you aren’t willing to spend the money then fine, but I know I would.
It is kind of hard to do an economic analysis with out any evidence..which you do not provide. Your idea of evidence is your own opinion, which isn’t formed with any sort of evidence, probably just observations of your own situation. I wouldn’t categorize that as the most reliable source.
By your logic..why create an entertainment district downtown??..people only have so much money to spend..and that will pull away from the plaza, towncenter, zona rosa. So we might as well keep everything the same right?? WRONG!! The residents of the KC did not vote to build a stadium to bring in a minor league team. Obviously there is a demand for another professional sports team, and wouldn’t that lead you to assume that because there is a demand..there is probably enough discretionary income to support our team.
People who share your opinon are those that keep KC from growing to our potential and becoming a city people want to move to.
Also..I went to a memphis grizzlies game last season..ticket price=$17(not the greatest seats..but good experience). That didn’t make the biggest impact in my wallet.
The average cost of a ticket is around $45..but that is distorted because of the insanely expensive front row seats and other premium seating areas.
Dave…
Interesting topic… I’m working in this industry myself and I don’t agree about this in 100%, but I added your page to my bookmarks and hope to see more interesting articles in the future…
I know this is an old blog, but what strikes me as funny is that KC already had a NBA team (the Kings)and a NHL team (the Scouts) and they both moved away. Kings to California, Scouts to Colorado (the Roockies) and then to New Jersey (the Devils). Plus KC already had an IHL team, the Blades,who folded when the IHL merged in with the AHL, due to lack of following. Then you had a lower minor league team, UHL I think, the Outlaws which folded after only one year.
What makes anyone think that this city will support either again?
I am not a NBA fan (as a former deputy in the Houston, Texas area I got to meet alot of those thugs known as the Rockets and not in the realm of fan/star but as cop/turd..which included but not limited too Akeem, Cassel, and my favorite of all time Maxwell, what a peice of….work he was)
I do agree that if this city could manage the support of a hockey team that the AHL would be the way to go. Much cheaper than the NHL and the action is just as good. Houston has the Aeros who have won both the IHL and AHL titles. The tickets started at 10 dollars a seat, and those seats aren’t bad at all. Plus they too play in the Toyota Center where the Rockets also play.
GO CHIEFS!!
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