12 Comments so far

1. mainstream on July 23, 2007 3:41 pm

   I’m trying to understand what good can possibly come from a graffiti expo. Graffiti is, by definition, vandalism.

   If an artist uses a style similar to what we know as graffiti, and paints their OWN private property - that’s art, it’s not graffiti.

   Graffiti is the scourge of almost all urban neighborhoods. Some people may find painting on other people’s property “hip”, but it’s not. Not if you live in a house or a neighborhood that is over run with a comabination of gang members and self-proclaimed “artists” messaging each other on OTHER PEOPLE’S property.

   Why would anybody in their right mind glorify and publicize this?

2. Fumes on July 23, 2007 9:50 pm

   In the inner city, graffiti is art.

3. mainstream on July 24, 2007 6:13 am

   Fumes, in the inner city, graffiti is vandalism. Unless of course your prepared to tell me that 99% of graffiti is NOT applied by someone to someone else’s property.

4. bksider on July 24, 2007 6:28 am

   mainstream, graffiti has in fact developed into a legitimate art form. KC’s own Gear and Scribe are two nationally know artists. You can see their work on the sides many buildings across Downtown and Midtown (commissioned works paid for by the building’s owners).

   The art form has evolved beyond just being kids vandalizing private property, even though your understanding of it hasn’t evolved.

5. mainstream on July 24, 2007 8:11 am

   I understand the “art” aspect, I don’t need a lecture, bksider. If your screen name is short for brooksider, then we can have another discussion about you lecturing anybody about urban affairs.

   The problem is that for every 1 “artist” we encourage, 99 graffiti perpetrators are, at the same time, encouraged as well.

   Public art and mural art are great things, and I’d love to see more - along the lines of what City Vision Ministries is doing in KCK.

   http://www.cityvisionministries.org/mural_arts.html

   But imitating gang graffiti? It’s kinda like advocating for gun control - “Spray cans don’t perpetrate illegal graffiti, misguided people do”. How are they misguided? Because we tell them what the gangs do is ultimately cool.

6. mainstream on July 24, 2007 8:20 am

   And by the way, bksider, since you probably live in brookside (correct me if I’m wrong) you may not have notice that graffiti perpetrators are evolving as well.

   There is a huge increase in graffiti in midtown. Drive into a neighborhood and look at the sides of buildings and the stop signs. They’re simply covered with it.

   I remove it, and it comes back. Then I remove it again - and it comes back again.

   Drive down Broadway, and then drive down Main street, between 31st and 43rd streets. Notice anything? Broadway is covered with graffiti and Main Street isn’t. Do you know why? Main street business actually TAX themselves to help pay for graffiti removal. It costs tens of thousands of doillars a year to handle it just on one street segment.

   Graffiti is evolving alright, because everybody thinks graffiti is cool. There are many of us that live in the hood that don’t agree.

   And are you familiar with “Pigsty”?. HE’S the hottest graffiti artist in town.

7. Sunday on July 24, 2007 11:35 am

   Mainstream,

   You devalue the legitimacy of your opinions by attacking “bksider” merely because you have concluded he or she lives in Brookside. You know nothing about “bksider” other than the sixty-three words he or she wrote espousing graffiti as an “art form”. Notably, “bksider” references “evolved” graffiti–commissioned art work, not the gang or ego-centric tagging you so clearly detest. Perhaps, “bksider” has no objection to the forms of graffiti you so clearly detest; we don’t know based on those sixty-three words. However, what we do know, is that you think someone else’s opinion has little or no value simply based upon where he or she resides. Given the foregoing, we also know that everyone should think carefully before giving any of your opinions serious consideration.

   p.s. Mainstream, I live in Hyde Park. Does my residence make my opinions unworthy of consideration? Perhaps, if you knew my sex, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or religious beliefs you would better be able to judge the value of my opinions.

8. bksider on July 24, 2007 12:15 pm

   yes i live in Brookside but I have worked Downtown for over 20 years. I am well aware of the tagging and gang symbols that mainstream mentions. But I am able to understand the difference between what is illegal and what is art. Unfortunately mainstream insists on grouping the two together, or is perhaps just unable to see the difference.

9. mainstream on July 24, 2007 12:45 pm

   First of all, Sunday, I have every right to be critical of and distinguish between (1) those of us who have to LIVE with graffiti, and have graffiti impact our housing values, and our pocketbooks, and our personal safety and (2) those that don’t.

   Tell me, both Sunday and Brooksider, how many times have you dragged a paint or soap bucket down the street to remove graffiti from fences, stop signs etc in your neighborhood? How many?

   How many times have you called the city and implored them to put graffiti block on new signage, because when a stop sign is replaced it’s instantly obscured with graffiti?

   My point is that if you have to live with graffiti, you’ll tend to think about it a little bit differently. It’s no longer an abstraction or something you look at in someone else’s neighborhood. Or in an art gallery.

   Now Brooksider, both you and I can see and understand the difference between art and graffiti. The problem is, not everybody thinks like you and I. If you’re 10-25 years old, the “art” and the criminal graffiti look JUST ALIKE. And when you see it on the side of a building, how does this 10-25 year old distinguish tell which is art and which is vandalism?

   And when it’s sold to them as a cool art form, my guess is it’s cool to those individuals regardless of whether its art or vandalism.

10. Sunday on July 25, 2007 11:55 am

    Mainstream,

    If you would take a moment to think about what you are saying, you would surely realize the hypocrisy of your position. You condemn bksider and me for having the audacity to have an opinion on graffiti merely because we don’t live in the “inner city” and therefore presumably can’t understand its negative consequences. Need I remind you that you don’t live in Brookside or Hyde Park and have no idea of the experiences we have had with graffiti in our neighborhoods?

    Oh, by the way, please explain how graffiti directly affects your or anyone else’s “personal safety”. Although, I acknowledge that graffiti can (and probably does) negatively impact your “housing values” and “pocketbooks”, but your “personal safety”? Isn’t that stretching it a bit?

    In answer to your question, last Saturday someone “tagged” the front door of my residence. (Interestingly enough, the tagger saw fit to keep his tag confined to the glass on the front door, completely avoiding the wood.)

    As an aside, I, and I suspect many others, differentiate between tagging and graffiti in one or more of its elevated forms. I suspect that the “graffiti” you are finding on the fences and stop signs in your neighborhood are the former and not the latter. Notably, in answer to your original question, it is my understanding that the Midwest Graffiti Expo is celebrating graffiti in one or more of its elevated forms and not some person running around with a Sharpie marking his or her gang’s “territory” or signing his or her tag in some highly stylized script.

    Mainstreet, although I can emphasize with your frustration, but I can’t accept your reasoning that you know more about graffiti effects on a community that do I merely because you think your neighborhood has more vandalism than does mine.

    Also, mainstreet, I think you fail to give the majority of youth in this city the credit they deserve. If you think they can’t tell the difference between the “work” of Pigsty and Scribe you are deluding yourself.

11. thejedshed on July 30, 2007 11:21 am

    weeeeell……
    no point to argue! The situation WILL never change, no matter what is said….

    However, does anyone know how much KC spends to (oh yeah - fight graffiti?)

    Its ALOT ALOT ALOT…..

    Now then, Sydney Australia did a program where all the utilities companies, telepone, postal, etc, etc, all got together and made it legal to write on others property…

    Graffitti dropped in that cvity by 99.9% and the city saved $2 million…..in one year!

    Now then.. It seems to me that intellegence requires hard work - to make things happen!

    Thanks… and, I like the blog… I have pics from the event, which I found to be worthwhile!.. In fact, that ugly wall is now a piece of art that looks nice and benefited people in more ways than could be imagined..

    http://kansascitypaint.blogspot.com/

12. neh on July 31, 2007 2:35 pm

    did any of you know that this expo was designed by the graff. artist gear in order to encourage kids not to vandalize? it was an effort to stop the kids in the area from tagging their school and neighborhood by showing them that a more artistic and legal/professional approach is more desirable. it was also an event in which the whole neighborhood got to gather and share in something which would up the value of their school and community and provide empathy and guidelines to their children’s lives.